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Jun 3, 2022 - Chris Thomas | OFF THE RECORD

Season 51 Episode 49 | 27m 45sVideo has Closed Captions | CC

Alleged phony signatures among GOP candidates for Gov. The guest is Chris Thomas.

Aired 06/02/2022

Jun 3, 2022 - Chris Thomas | OFF THE RECORD Season 51 Episode 49 | 27m 45sVideo has Closed Captions | CC

Alleged phony signatures among GOP candidates for Gov. The guest is Chris Thomas.

The panel discusses the alleged phony signatures that have knocked some GOP candidates for Governor off the ballot. The guest is former state elections director Chris Thomas to discuss those

signatures in question. Chuck Stokes, Laruen Gibbons and Ben Solis join senior capitol correspondent Tim Skubick to discuss the week in Michigan government and politics.

Aired 06/02/2022

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Off the Record is a local public television program presented by WKAR

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About This EpisodeTranscriptYou Might Also LikeJun 3, 2022 - Chris Thomas | OFF THE RECORD Season 51 Episode 49 | 27m 45sVideo has Closed Captions | CC

The panel discusses the alleged phony signatures that have knocked some GOP candidates for Governor off the ballot. The guest is former state elections director Chris Thomas to discuss those

signatures in question. Chuck Stokes, Laruen Gibbons and Ben Solis join senior capitol correspondent Tim Skubick to discuss the week in Michigan government and politics.

Aired 06/02/2022

Problems playing video?  Report a Problem | Closed Captioning Feedback

Before you submit an error, please consult our Video Help page.

Type of ErrorVideo doesn’t loadVideo loads, but doesn’t playVideo jumps back/forwardOnly audio is streamingSponsorship playback errorOtherSubmitCancelGenreNews and Public AffairsShare This

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Jun 3, 2022 - Chris Thomas | OFF THE RECORD S51 Ep49

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>> WELCOME BACK OUR GUEST IS A FORMER STATE ELECTIONS DIRECTOR CHRIS THOMAS HERE TO COMMENT ON HIS ONLY PETITION SIGNATURES AT.

THE ALLEGED SIGNATURES HAVE NOT SOME REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES OFF THE BALLOT FOR GOVERNOR.

WE WILL GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.

>> PRODUCTION IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MARTIN WEHMEIER A FULL-SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AGENCY PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONS DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY

ENGAGEMENT.

LEARN MORE AT MARTIN WEHMEIER .COM.

>> WELCOME BACK TO OFF THE RECORD LIVE ON A FRIDAY MORNING BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT MAKES A DECISION ON SOME OF THESE STORIES I HAVE TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE.

BUT FIRST I WANT TO THANK MY FRIEND CHUCK STOKES FOR SITTING OVER HERE SO MY LOVELY BRIDE AND REST AND RELAXATION.

>> EVERYONE DESERVES SOME.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK A COUPLE CANDIDATES WANTED TO BE GOVERNOR AND THEY MAY NOT MAKE IT.

>> JAMES CRAIG TRIED TO LAUNCH HIS CAMPAIGN LAST SEPTEMBER BUT FROM THE OPENING BELL ALL THAT CAMPAIGN WAS TROUBLE HERE PROTESTERS SURROUNDED THE PODIUM AS MR. CRAIG TRIED TO ANNOUNCE BUT

THEY BLOCKED HIM FROM MAKING THE ANNOUNCEMENT HE QUICKLY FOUND ANOTHER MORE QUIET VENUE.

>> I AM JAMES CRAIG WRITING TO BE YOUR GOVERNOR.

>> LITTLE DID HE KNOW LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS INTERVIEWED ON THIS FARM THAT HIS CAMPAIGN WOULD EVENTUALLY IMPLODE GOING THROUGH THREE CAMPAIGN MANAGERS RAISING VERY LITTLE MONEY AND THEN THIS.

THE STATE APPELLATE COURT THIS WEEK HAS RULED HE DID NOT TURN IN ENOUGH 15,000 BALLOT PETITION SIGNATURES TO EARN A PLACE ON THE STATEWIDE BALLOT THEY ALSO BLOCKED.

JOHNSON AND OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR FROM POURING HIS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THE RACE BECAUSE HE ALSO FAILED TO VALID NAMES THIS REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT ASSESSES THE IMPACT OF

ALL OF THIS ON WHAT IS LEFT OF THE REPUBLICAN RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

>> HE HAD THE HIGHEST NAME ID AND THE TOP STANDING IN THE POLLS AND JOHNSON HAD A LOT OF MONEY SO THAT IS TOO BIG PLAYERS TAKE IT OUT I FIND IT UNFATHOMABLE HOW TO SERIOUS CANDIDATES WHO

WERE SO CAVALIER ABOUT THEIR BALLOT.

>> THEY ALSO TOSSED OUT THE CANDIDACY OF MICHAEL MARQUIS FOR GOVERNOR AND CANDIDATE DIANA IS ASKING THE STATE SUPREME COURT TO PUT HER ON THE BALLOT BUT THE BETTING MONEY IN TOWN IS THAT THE

STATE'S HIGHEST COURT WILL NOT PUT ON CRAIG, JOHNSON MARQUIS, AND BRANDENBURG WHICH LEAVES RICKIE DIXON KELLY SAUL DONNELL AND REVAMP IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY AUGUST >> FIRST THEY WERE TEN

NOW THERE ARE FIVE MAY BE.

>> YES THEY WHITTLE DOWN THE FIELD PRETTY QUICKLY.

WE ARE WAITING ON THE SUPREME COURT AS YOU MENTIONED HOPEFULLY THAT COMES WITH IN THE NEXT COUPLE HOURS BUT YES IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE THIS MANY CANDIDATES ELIMINATED FROM THE BALLOT I

THINK WE THREW AROUND THE WORD UNPRECEDENTED MORE TIMES THAT I HAVE HEARD IN A MINUTE NEWSROOM LAST WEEK WHEN THIS CAME DOWN AND THE ARGUMENTS BEFORE THE COURT ARE NOT CONVINCING TO THE

COURT OF APPEALS AND SO WE WILL SEE IF THE SUPREME COURT WANTS TO DECIDE WITH THE LOWER COURT AND LET THIS THING RIDE.

>> I THINK THAT AS BEEN SAID IT SEEMS AS THOUGH EVERYTHING IS A LITTLE BIT UNPRECEDENTED LATELY BUT THIS GOES IN LINE WITH THAT TREND AND AS YOUR PIECE MENTIONED THE TWO WITH THE MOST NAME

ID AND MONEY ARE NON- FACTORS APPEAR >> IT IS ASTOUNDING.

>> NO ONE WOULD HAVE PREDICTED THIS EVEN A MONTH AGO THEY TURNED IN A SIGNATURES AND THIS SITUATION HAS REALLY ROCKED TO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE AND WE ARE STARTING TO SEE DIXON COME FORWARD AS

THE HEIR APPARENT FOR A LOT OF THESE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS AND SHE ALSO EARNED THE RIGHT TO LIFE OF MICHIGAN ENDORSEMENT THIS WEEK AND SO THIS REALLY HAS RESHAPED THE FIELD OF THE GOP

RACE AND IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN EXACTLY HOW MUCH IT WILL IMPACT THE PRIMARY OVERALL I THINK IT DOES DEPEND UPON WHAT THE CANDIDATES ULTIMATELY DECIDE TO DO ONCE THE WILL THEY ACCEPT THOSE

RESULTS MAY BE ENDORSE ANOTHER CANDIDATE OR WILL THEY CONTINUE TO PUSH BACK ON THIS?

>> IT IS A POTENTIAL POLITICAL DISASTER WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL END UP.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS COMING OUT THE GATE YOU THINK MY GRACIOUS I CANNOT REMEMBER SEEING ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN THEN YOU RAISE THE QUESTION ABOUT CAMPAIGN ADS

JOHNSON SAYS ON THE QUALITY GURU AND THEY START TO SAY OKAY WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF DEEM THIS INDICATIVE OF HOW A CAMPAIGN IS RUN THEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE BUCK STOP AT YOUR DESK ULTIMATE

RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN IS THE CANDIDATE YOU CAN BLAME ALL KIND OF PEOPLE BUT THE COURT IS NOT BUYING IT WILL THEY EVENTUALLY HAVE TO RUN AS AS WRITING CANDIDATES THAT'S A HEAVY

LIFT IN A STATE THIS BIG BUT WE WILL SAY IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL IT'S OVER.

DIXON IS GETTING A NICE BUMP.

RIGHT TO LIFE IS GIVING HER ENDORSEMENT AND SO SHE HAS SOME LEGS NOW EVEN THOUGH IN TERMS OF THE POLLING SHE WAS NOT THE LEADER GOING INTO THIS BUT HE COULD QUICKLY CHANGE.

>> FOR THOSE LEFT STANDING TAKING THE BIG SHOOTER WHO HAS THE MOST MONEY AND THE ONE WHO IS GOING TO DO QUITE WELL IN CAN YOU TAKE THESE TWO FACTORS OUT, IT'S A WHOLE NEW BALLGAME IT'S NEW

FACTORS.

>> DIXON IS TRYING TO PULL AWAY FOR -- FROM THE PACK.

THE POLLING IS NOT THERE BUT WITH THE MONEY BEHIND HER NOW AT ANOTHER ENDORSEMENT THERE WAS A PLEDGE ON A RADIO PROGRAM ABOUT THE FAMILY WAS GOING TO BACK A DIXON AND WITH THAT IN MIND THE

RIGHT TO LIFE ARE STOP ON WHETHER TRUMP WILL ENDORSE IN THIS RACE HE NAME DROPPED TO DIXON AND SO THE STAGES IS BEING SET FOR THAT ENDORSEMENT AS WELL WE WILL SAY.

>> I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY THERE IS A CLEAR PATH TO VICTORY FOR THE OTHER CANDIDATES AS WELL THEN THERE WAS PRIOR TO TAKING THESE TWO NAMES OUT OF CONTENTION AND IN ADDITION TO WHITTLING

THE FIELD MAKING IT SO THE DEBATE DEBATE STAGES ARE NOT SUPER CROWDED OR PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO GET IN A COUPLE POINTS THAT PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER HAVING A SMALLER FIELD DOES LEAVE ROOM FOR

OTHER CANDIDATES TO MAKE A SPLASH IT WOULD BE PREMATURE AT THIS POINT TO SAY THAT TUTOR DIXON HAS IN THE BAG BY ANY MEANS WE CLEARLY HAVE SEEN THAT THIS RACE CAN CHANGE VERY QUICKLY AND YES

I DO THINK THAT CONTINUING TO SEE WITH THE NEWLY POTENTIALLY DISQUALIFIED CANDIDATES DO WHAT THEY END UP DOING IF THEY DO DECIDE TO LAUNCH RIGHT ENDS OR POTENTIALLY CONTINUE TO TRY TO

CONTEST THIS STUFF BUT YES I THINK THAT IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BALL THAN IT WAS EVEN A WEEK AGO.

>> IT WILL BE EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO FOCUS IN ON THESE FIVE CANDIDATES WHAT ARE THEIR MESSAGES.

IT'S TOO MANY IT'S LIKE A KENTUCKY DERBY BUT IF THERE MAY MEAN OF THE BALLOT THAT NARROWS THE FIELD YOU CAN FOCUS BETTER YOU CAN ARTICULATE WHO STANDS FOR WHAT AND WHICH ONE MIGHT STACK UP

BETTER AGAINST GRETCHEN COMING DOWN THE LINE SOME SAY A FEMALE TO FEMALE RACE COULD BE A VERY INTERESTING RACE AND COULD TURN OUT TO BE GRETCHEN'S GREATEST CHALLENGE BY THE SAME TOKEN THERE

ARE SOME BUSINESS MEN IN THIS RACE KEVIN, SOME PEOPLE HAVE MONEY BEHIND THEM AND A WHOLE LOT CAN CHANGE BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER.

>> LET'S TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT SOME BALLOT PROPOSALS THAT HAD A DEADLINE, SPEAKING OF SIGNATURES , SOME PEOPLE PUT ON HOLD, THE LEAD MICHIGAN KIDS LEARN SOME SAY IT IS A DISGUISED VOUCHER

PROGRAM.

SECURE THE VOTE WAS A DEAD ELECTION REFORM OBVIOUSLY THOSE ARE ON HOLD BUT WHY ARE THEY ON HOLD?

>> THEY DIDN'T COLLECT ENOUGH SIGNATURES >> THIS FRAUDULENT SIGNATURE THING HAS CHANGED THE DYNAMICS AND GATHERING NAMES NOW EVERYONE IS SUPER SENSITIVE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS

CLEAN.

>> YES AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WAS SECURED MY VOTE SPECIFICALLY THEY HAD FOR WEEKS THAT WE ARE GOOD WE HAVE ENOUGH SIGNATURES WE ARE JUST PATTING HER LEAD AT THIS POINT AND THEN THE DAY OF,

JUNE 1st, THEY HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE SAYING WE ARE NOT TURNING THEM IN AND IT WAS EYE OPENING SEEING ROE WHO WAS YOUR GUEST ON THE SEGMENT STANDING OVER A COUPLE BOXES OF PETITION

SIGNATURES SAYING THESE ARE ALL FRAUDULENT THROUGH OUR OWN QUALITY CONTROL PROJECT.

>> 15,000 NAMES.

SHE IT'S VERY INTENSE TO SEE THAT.

I THINK THE SAME STRUGGLES THAT GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES COULD ALSO END UP IN THIS PROCESS AS WELL.

HE COULD SOMEONE ASTOUNDING TO SEE THAT NUMBER OF LIKELY FRAUDULENT SIGNATURES ESPECIALLY WHEN THE CAMPAIGNS ARE IDENTIFYING AND FLAGGING OF THESE IS PROBLEMATIC REALLY I THINK IN THIS

PARTICULAR CASE KIND OF I THINK MAKES THE PUBLIC MORE AWARE OF WHAT IS USUALLY A PRETTY ROUTINE PROCESS A LOT OF TIMES WE WILL SAY THEY GATHER THE SIGNATURES OR THEY DID NOT IN 2020 WE SAW

SOME BALLOT CAMPAIGNS HAVE ISSUES WITH COLLECTING SIGNATURES DURING THE PANDEMIC AND THOSE THINGS ARE NOT SUPER COMPLICATED TO REPORT ON BUT WHEN YOU SEE CAMPAIGNS THAT WERE WELL-FUNDED

FUNDED AND HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE STREETS YOU SAW THE PETITION GATHERERS EVERYWHERE TO SEE THESE CAMPAIGNS JUST BUCKLING UNDER THIS FRAUD IS SIGNIFICANT AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT

THOSE TWO CAMPAINS THAT YOU MENTION SPECIFICALLY THEY ARE CONTINUING TO COLLECT SIGNATURES AS THEY ARE TRYING TO GO FOR THE LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL AS OPPOSED TO THE BALLOT APPROVAL BUT IT

DOES PUT -- AT A LESS PRIORITY IN TERMS OF TIMELINE SO THIS COULD COME INTO THE LATER YEAR, THE LAME DUCK SITUATION, OR IT COULD GET PUSHED INTO A NEW LEGISLATURE.

>> I SPOKE WITH MR. ROWE ABOUT THIS AND HE LAID OUT THIS TRAGEDY THAT THE ALLEGED FRAUD PEOPLE WENT THROUGH SAYING THEY WOULD COME ON BOARD IN THE FIRST SET OF PETITIONS THEY WOULD TURN AND

WERE PRISTINE ACTUALLY PERFECT THAN THE NEXT BATCH CAME IN AND HAD A FEW OF THE LOUSY NAMES IN THERE AND IF THEY GOT BEYOND THAT POINT AND WERE NOT CAUGHT THEN IT WAS THE BOARD THAT WENT

FORWARD WITH THE ALLEGED FRAUDULENT SIGNATURES AND SO THAT WAS THERE A NOTICE MODUS OPERANDI HERE WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

>> I THINK WHAT EVERYONE HAS ASKED NOW IS, IS THE ELECTION PROCESS SYSTEM BROKEN?

DOES IT HAVE LOOPHOLES AND CRACKS IN THE ARMOR?

OR IS THIS JUST A SYSTEM THAT WORKS FINE IF YOU HAVE HONEST PEOPLE WORKING THE SYSTEM AND DOES THIS SAY MORE ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE COLLECTING THE SIGNATURES THAN IT DOES ABOUT THE

SYSTEM?

BUT THESE ARE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE TO ASK AND ANSWER IT SEEMED TO WORK FINE DURING THE SNYDER YEARS AT WORK DURING THE GRAND YEARS, IT WORKED FINE WHEN GRETCHEN WAS FIRST RUNNING AND FIRST GOT

AN ELECTION AND MET THE BAR AND IT DID NOT SEEM TO BE THE PROBLEM BUT NOW WE HAVE A FREAK SITUATION WHERE MULTIPLE CANDIDATES ARE NOT MAKING IT FOR THESE REASONS AND IT QUESTIONS THE

SYSTEM, THERE ARE VOLUNTEER PEOPLE THAT GO OUT AND GET SIGNATURES AND THERE ARE PAID SIGNATURES IS IT TIME TO MAYBE DO AWAY WITH THE PAGE SIGNATURES WHICH IS TOUGH.

BUT IF YOU DO AWAY WITH IT DO YOU THEN TAKE AWAY THE INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO BE HONEST AND DISHONEST?

AND THAT'S A BIG QUESTION WE CAN ASK THE VOTERS IN THE SYSTEM HAVE TO ANSWER IT.

TAKE THE OTHER QUESTION IS WHAT DOES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FIND WHEN SHE DOES A DEEP DIVE INTO THE SITUATION MY GUESS IS SOME HEADS WILL ROLL DON'T YOU THINK?

>> YES EVERYONE IS CONCERNED ABOUT HOW TO FIX THIS, GETTING RID OF PAID CIRCULATORS IS A HUGE LEFT REFORMING IS SOMETHING PEOPLE CAN GET BEHIND ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE PARTIES

HAVE SOME LOCAL ELECTION INTEGRITY TAKING FRAUD OUT OF ELECTIONS SEVERAL CANDIDATES WERE MARRED BY FRAUD.

>> THIS FORMER GOVERNOR SAYS IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE PEOPLE COMPLAINED MOST ABOUT ELECTION SECURITY WERE INVOLVED IN ELECTION FRAUD.

LET'S CALL IN CHRIS THOMAS WHO USED TO BE THERE AND I WILL ASSUME THAT YOU ARE GLAD THAT YOU ARE NOT THERE NOW IS THAT RIGHT CHRIS?

>> I THINK I'M IN THE RIGHT PLACE NOW.

>> EXACTLY.

BUT LET'S SEE IF WE CAN MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE IN YOUR RIGHT PLACE.

DO YOU THINK THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS SHOULD HAVE DONE A RANDOM SAMPLING ON THE SIGNATURES FROM THE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES WHICH IS A TRIED-AND-TRUE METHOD THAT YOU HAVE USED IN THE PASS?

>> WE NEVER USED IT FOR CANDIDATES I WOULD BE HESITANT TO SAY THAT THEY SHOULD BUT GIVEN THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FORMULA THAT IS THAT THEY WILL HAVE THOUSANDS OF SIGNATURES THAT WILL HAVE

TO BE SAMPLED IN ORDER TO COME UP WITH A VALID DECISION SO THEY WOULD BE WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME MOVING FORWARD WITH JUST CHECKING ALL THE SIGNATURES BUT THIS SITUATION IS EXTREMELY RARE THERE

IS NO PRECEDENT FOR THE TYPE OF FRAUD THAT WE ARE SEEING HERE ACROSS THE CAMPAIGN AND SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT AND IN -- AND THE BUREAU WILL HAVE TO MAKE SOME

ADJUSTMENTS GOING FORWARD THAT IF THIS WERE TO REPEAT ITSELF WHICH I DOUBT IT WILL BECAUSE I AM ASSUMING THESE PEOPLE GO TO JAIL THE END OF THE DAY.

>> IF YOU'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO THE FOLKS THAT YOU USE TO WORK WITH WHAT WERE THE FIRST WOULD BE?

>> FIRST ONE IS TO ALWAYS CHECK ON THE SIGNATURES NOW JONATHAN WHO IS AN OUTSTANDING YOUNG MAKES THE CASE IN HIS AFFIDAVIT THAT WAS FILED WITH THE COURT OF APPEALS ABOUT QUOTE THE

IMPOSSIBILITY OF DOING THIS GIVEN THE HOURS AND THE VOLUME INVOLVED.

I THINK NOW WOULD BE TIME TO LOOK AT THE FALLBACKS, DO YOU LOOK AT THE RANDOM SAMPLING?

CAN THIS WORK WITH A SMALLER UNIVERSE OF SIGNATURES THAN THE STATEWIDE BALLOT PROPOSAL?

AND SO THEY HAVE INVOKED A PROVISION OF LAW TO THROW OUT SIGNATURES WHEN YOU FIND CIRCULATORS HAVE VIOLATED THEIR CERTIFICATE AND THAT IS THERE BECAUSE WE RAN INTO IT AND THE THIRD CIRCUIT

IN WAYNE COUNTY BACK IN THE LATE 80S WHERE THERE WAS FRAUD EVERYWHERE AND I THINK THE DALLAS MAVERICKS SIGNED ON.

SOME KIDS WENT OUT AND CIRCULATED SIGNATURES AND SIGNED OTHERS' NAMES IN ORDER TO GET MONEY FOR MOTHER'S DAY GIFTS IT'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS AND THAT RESULTED IN THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU FIND A

CIRCULATOR HAS BEEN FRAUDULENT YOU CAN THROW ALL THE SIGNATURES AWAY.

>> IN TERMS OF WHY THIS IS HAPPENING NOW YOU MENTIONED IT SOMEWHAT UNPRECEDENTED AND IS THERE ANY FACTORS IN RECENT ELECTION CYCLES THAT HAVE MADE THIS ISSUE MORE LIKELY?

OR ARE THERE ANY SITUATIONAL ASPECTS OF THIS ELECTION CYCLE THAT LEFT CANDIDATES AND BALLOT PETITIONS MORE VULNERABLE TO THE SORT OF FRAUD?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THERE WERE A COUPLE OF STATEWIDE BALLOT PROPOSALS WITH AND THEY HAVE RUN INTO ISSUES WITH THE RANDOM SAMPLE WHICH IS VERY UNUSUAL AND THAT HAS CAUGHT MY ATTENTION WHICH

TELL US ME THAT THERE ARE SOME PROBLEMS IN THE CIRCULATION WORLD BUT HERE WE COME OFF OF COVID WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF CANDIDATES WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF BALLOT PROPOSALS OUT THERE AND

SO THIS IS FERILE GROUND FOR THOSE WHO TRAVEL FROM STATE TO STATE TO CIRCULATE PETITIONS AND OBVIOUSLY AS DEADLINES APPROACH THE DOLLAR FIGURE GOES UP THE BUREAU OF ELECTIONS INDICATED IT IS

FIVE TO $7 WITH SOME LOOKING AT $20 PER SIGNATURE.

THAT CAN TURN INTO SOME REAL MONEY.

THIS HOME MONEY ISSUE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN BEFORE US FOR A LONG TO TIME AT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT SAID YOU CANNOT BAN PAYMENT THEY WILL NOT ALLOW IT BUT THE QUESTION IS CAN YOU

ELIMINATE PAYMENT PER SIGNATURE AND MAKE THEM MOVE TO A SALARY OR HOURLY RATE?

THAT COULD BE AN OPTION BUT AN OUTRIGHT BAN IS NOT AN OPTION.

TO GIVE AN UNPRECEDENTED NATURE OF THE SITUATION IS THE DEADLINE PROCESS BEING RUSHED?

THIS IS JUNE 3rd DEADLINE AND THE OTHER DEADLINES THAT WE HAVE SEEN WE KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO GET EVERYTHING PRINTED IN TAKE IT TO THE SERVICE PEOPLE BUT GIVEN THE PROCESS SHOULD THINGS

PERHAPS TO BE MOVED BACK IN FAIRNESS TO ALL OF OF THE CANDIDATES?

>> THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

BACK IN THE DAY IT WAS NINE WEEKS BEFORE THE PRIMARY WAS FILED FOR DEADLINE IMAGINE THAT.

BUT IT HAS BEEN CONTINUALLY MOVED BACK TO 12 WEEKS NOW 14 WEEKS AND WHERE IT GETS CRUNCHED IS WHEN YOU HAVE ONE WEEK AFTER THE FILING DEADLINE TO FILE YOUR CHALLENGES THEN THE BUREAU HAS A

SHORT FEW WEEKS TO WORK THE CHALLENGES TO VERIFY WHETHER THEY ARE ACCURATE OR NOT BUT IN THIS CASE IF YOU LOOK AT THIS AFFIDAVIT WE WOULD NEED WEEKS OF ADDITIONAL TIME IF HE WERE TO BE

REQUIRED TO LOOK AT EVERY SIGNAL SIGNATURE -- EVERY SINGLE SIGNATURE.

>> IF YOU ARE IN CHARGE RIGHT NOW YOU WOULD SUGGEST A LINE BY LINE REVIEW OBVIOUSLY THEY DECIDED NOT TO DO THAT BUT THERE'S ALSO THE PERIOD OF TIME BUT THE COURT OF APPEALS ESSENTIALLY SAID

NOT QUITE.

THEY DID A LINE BY LINE REVIEW WHICH IS NOT PART OF THEIR ESSENTIAL DUTIES AND DO YOU AGREE WITH THE COURT OF APPEALS ON THIS GIVEN WHAT YOU JUST AT A SECOND AGO?

>> ONE OF THIS ELEMENTS IS THE ACCURATE REQUEST FOR GOVERNMENT REFORM THE MINISTERIAL MEETING THERE IS NO DECISION YOU JUST DO IT THERE IS NO OPTION.

AND THE COURT OF APPEALS SAID NO THE WAY THIS LAW IS WRITTEN THE CANVASSRS DO HAVE OPTIONS AS TO WHETHER THEY TAKE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, CHECK ALL THE SIGNATURES OR FIND THAT THE CIRCULATORS

VIOLATED THEIR CERTIFICATE AND SO I THINK THIS IS A LEGITIMATE ANSWER WE WILL SEE WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO SAY ABOUT IT.

>> WHAT IS THE DEGREE OF YOUR CONCERN THAT YOU READ THIS WEEK THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN PARTICULAR IS TRAINING POLL WORKERS AND POLL WATCHERS TO FLOOD INTO THE PRECINCTS AROUND THE STATE

OF MICHIGAN TO BIRD DOG WHAT'S GOING ON?

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> FIRST I WELCOME IT.

I WELCOME THAT THEY SEND PEOPLE IN TO BE WORKERS TO BECOME ELECTION INSPECTORS AND BE PART OF THE PROCESS WHERE THEY WILL GET TRAINED AND UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS.

WE NEED ADDITIONAL REPUBLICAN INSPECTORS.

THERE IS NOT AND NOT OF A PUBLIC -- THERE IS NOT A LOT REPUBLICANS SIGNING UP IN DETROIT AND THE CLERK DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO REPUBLICANS SHE PUT THE CALL OUT TO THE PARTIES AND ASKS THEM

TO SEND LISTS AS THE LAW ALLOWS THE PARTIES TO DO VERY RARELY HEARS ANY SO THIS YEAR SHE GOT A LIST WHICH IS GREAT AND SHE'S WORKING ON IT THAT'S A GREAT THING BUT ON THE OTHER HAND THE

CHALLENGES THAT WILL BE A VERY INTERESTING PROCESS CHALLENGES ARE ALLOWED IN THIS STATE WE ARE HAPPY TO SEE THEM THERE BUT IF THEY ARE THERE TO THEY WILL FIND THE DOOR PRETTY QUICKLY.

>> IF THEY MAKE A CHALLENGE AND THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO THAT IF THEY DO ENOUGH CHALLENGES YOUR LINE OUT IN FRONT OF THE POLLING PLACE COULD BE LATER THAN ALL GET OUT AND THAT'S THE HIDDEN

STRATEGY SOME OPPONENTS SAY.

>> THEY HAVE TO HAVE GOOD REASONS TO MAKE A CHALLENGE THEY CAN'T JUST SIT THERE WITHOUT ANY LIST AND CHALLENGE PEOPLE FOR NO GOOD THAT CLEARLY IN LAW IS NOT PERMITTED SO WE WILL SEE HOW IT

DOES ROLL OUT I HAVE SPOKEN WITH THE ORGANIZER AND HE ASSURES ME THAT THIS IS ALL ABOVE BOARD SO WE WILL SIT AND SEE HOW FAR ABOVE BOARD THIS IS.

IF THIS IS JUST AN EFFORT TO WREAK HAVOC AND DELAY THE ELECTION PROCESS I FEEL IT BE THAT I FEEL IT WILL BE RESOLVED VERY QUICKLY ON ELECTION DAY.

TAKE LOOKING AHEAD TO NOVEMBER THERE ARE MANY CANDIDATES AND VOTERS WHO WERE CONCERNED AND STILL HAVE CONCERNS WITH THE ELECTION PROCESS STILL AND PERHAPS BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WAS

STOLEN FROM FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND MOVING INTO THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE ARE THERE ANY -- WHAT CAN BE DONE TO BRING THOSE FOLKS BACK INTO THE FOLD AND GET THEM TO TRUST THE ELECTION

PROCESS AGAIN AND ARE THERE ANY VULNERABILITIES IN THE SYSTEM THAT COULD POTENTIALLY LEAVE THIS OPEN FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTINUED TO CHALLENGE LEGITIMATE ELECTION RESULTS?

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT A LOT CAN BE DONE BUT THERE'S ONE MAIN THING VOTERS IN THE STATE IN 201867 PERCENT SAID WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO VOTE BY MAIL AND VOTE ABSENTEE THE LEGISLATURE HAS

YET TO CREATE A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS ADMINISTRATORS, ELECTION OFFICIALS TO PROPERLY PROCESS THOSE IN A TIMELY FASHION AND SO WE DO NEED PREPROCESSING WHICH MEANS THE BALANCE BEFORE ELECTION

DAY FOR SEVEN TO THREE DAYS ARE OPEN AND PUT THROUGH THE TABULATOR'S THIS IS DONE IN MANY STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY INCLUDING OHIO OUR NEIGHBOR STAYED IN FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA THIS IS A

STANDARD PROCEDURE WHEN THERE IS HEAVY MAIL IN.

THE LEGISLATURE GAVE US TEN HOURS OF PRE- PROCESS AND WITHOUT PUTTING THEM INTO A TABULATOR IN 2020.

THE PREDICATE FOR THE BIG LIE OR STOP THE STEAL HER HOWEVER YOU WANT TO CHARACTERIZE IT WAS LATE HERE IN DETROIT WE DID NOT FINISH UNTIL 7:00 OR 8:00 ON WEDNESDAY, MANY JURISDICTIONS AROUND

THE STATE DID NOT FINISH UNTIL WELL INTO WEDNESDAY THAT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AND WE ARE SET UP FOR THIS KIND OF FAILURE NOW UNLESS THE LEGISLATURE PROVIDES US WITH PREPROCESSING.

WE NEED MORE.

>> WE HAVE MORE TO GET INTO SO LET'S DO IT OVER TIME.

LET'S TAKE A QUICK BREAK LOOK AT THE CLOSED CREDITS AND GO TO OUR WEBSITE FOR MORE CONVERSATION AND COMMENTS.

>> MARTIN WEHMEIER PARTNERING THROUGH CLIENTS AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT LEARN MORE AT MARTIN WEHMEIER .COM.

FOR MORE OFF THE W K K R .COM.

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